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What Are You Worth?

April 6th, 2010 15 comments

Club owners and promoters would like you to believe otherwise, but you, as a DJ, are worth something.  The service we provide has a value no matter how much others try to undermine it.  Everyone’s worth is different depending on their skills and history in the game.  The key is to know where you stand in the scheme of things.  Figuring out your place can be a challenge, especially for those new to DJing.  Even a few years into it you might not know your place for sure.

Now, I’m not writing this to tell you what your worth is.  It’s just not possible for me to do that.  I’m writing this to put the concept of worth in your head so the next time a gig comes up where the promoter offers you half your normal rate you can have the piece of mind to tell them NO!  It’s OK.  You’re allowed to do that.

I believe, and I think most successful people would agree, that you should not take every opportunity that comes your way.  You undermine your worth by doing so.  For you to establish worth in other peoples eyes you have to demonstrate the things you will and won’t do.  You WILL do the event that pays your going rate or more.  You WILL NOT do the event that doesn’t meet your going rate.  If you take every gig that come your way you’re showing everyone you’re a pushover and they can take advantage of you.  That’s not the image you want out there.

Of course there are always some exceptions to the rule.  I’m not going to pretend every gig I do meets the price point I’m aiming for, but the fact that I know my worth helps me determine which lower paying gigs may be worth my time.  I also have no problem turning away the ones that aren’t.  Sometimes exposure/a fun party/friends party trumps money.

That said, if you DJ a club on a Friday night for $150 when you usually get $400, there’s a problem.  Why would you take that gig?  You had a free night?  I’m sorry, but staying home and practicing is worth more than letting every club owner/promoter in town know you’ll DJ for $150 instead of $400.  Yes, if you turned down the $150 gig you might not DJ there, ever…  But who cares???  Do you really want to DJ somewhere that thinks you’re worth 2/3 less than everywhere else you play?  That’s not a repeat gig I’d want.

I could go on for days on this subject and I’m sure I’m missing some key points I’d like to make, but remember this.  You don’t have to take every gig that comes your way.  All money is not good money.  You could be hurting yourself more than helping.  You are worth more than the club owner/promoters want you to believe.  Don’t forget, they’re making a killing!!

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  • http://killaka5.blogspot.com killaka5

    another good post. I can say I started kinda how JD started when it came to the clubs, under someones wings, I had been djing for a 6-7yrs at the time but just wasnt use to the club scene, as far as djing, so i shadowed my friend, he would let me open up and whatnot, got the hang of reading a crowd and what to play at what time, and so on.The more i would go with him to gigs the more time he would let me play, which ment more drinking time for him, lol. so i caught the eye of a few promoters, and went off from there. Alot of promoters tried to lowball me with that “its good exposure/im helping you, you’re helping me out” bullshit and i didnt take it. whenever i wasnt djing on my own i would always go back and dj with him, since he was pretty established in the city (san antonio tx), ppl would always ask him to dj for him but he would pass on gigs to me. That was a few yrs back, i went on and kept good residencies. like yall said you lower your price you fuck everyone up, not just other djs, your fucking yourself over. and when someone hears you play and they dont like your price and they try to low ball you, ask them if they go into a store look at the price on the tag and try to bargain then, its a set price (not a set price but yall know what i mean).

    @dj-cab im on the same boat right now, like you once were. i use to live in san antonio tx, had residencies wed-sat(sun) dj all over TX, and now i just recently moved back home (miami) and i know very few promoters and djs, been networking with a some, but everyone already has their inner circle. Its hard to come in as the new guy and get connected, but hard work does pay off, and thats what i been doing.

    @djri this goes kinda with what you were saying, when you have a set price, and they tell you “well we didnt do aswell as we thought we were” and you get paid less, you ask if the bouncers are making less and hour or the bartenders or whoever, a set fee is a set fee, and you just dont work with those ppl again. I’ve heard it all from “im waiting for the club to pay me” to “i lieft my checkbook at home”, one time this promoter did that and i was like ok coo, ill head over there after, i got paid that night. If you get burned you just know not to do business with them anymore.

    big ups to JD & J Spring always with some solid post, and very good topics for us djs.

  • DJRivas

    Thanks JD and everyone else for their extremely helpful responses. I honestly had no idea how to really get into the game and how to do it well. Your story on how you succeeded JD really connects with me because I’m from Massachusetts as well and am actually going into college to study business. My dream is to graduate and start up clubs all around the world. Before I do, I need a bit of experience in the clubs. I’ve been helping my father since I was 9 (you know lugging around all that equipment, helping him play the newer stuff the kids like now-a-days) until I turned 16 and he actually let me DJ parties for him. I’ve done weddings, Proms, school dances, corporate events, even quinceaneras. I have the experience and the desire that I believe is needed to rock the club, and occasionally I do visit to get a feel for the atmosphere and the way the DJ sets the mood; but the one thing I haven’t done is gotten to rock the club myself.

    This is one of my biggest dreams to have my own set, my own feel without any restrictions at the club. Being a mobile DJ you have a lot of restrictions on what you can and can’t play depending on the owner but as a Club DJ you can let yourself free. I can’t imagine the feeling one gets when rocking the club and having the crowd singing and dancin all night. I usually get that spine tingling feeling when I lay a hot mix down and the crowd is cheering but in a club atmosphere I bet this feeling is heightened to the extreme.

    Again, thanks for your time responding to my post. I really appreciate what you guys are doing with this site and continue to support you on crack4djs

  • http://www.djjasondawson.com Dj JD

    @Ri – Thanks for the response Ri. Love your edits on DMS. I’ve been lucky and only run into this once lately. It was a gig in Boston and they paypal’d me the money almost 2 weeks after the event. I was not happy about. I’m always used to getting paid at the event. I know some people run into this scenario a lot though. I would get very frustrated if that happened to me a lot. How would the promoter feel if they had to wait 2 weeks to get their money from the club? lol. If this happens to you a lot, maybe you should demand payment before you play music and if they don’t pay, leave. Most businesses won’t do work without payment up front. Why should we be different?

  • http://myspace.com/deejayri DJRi

    Not sure if you guys have the same problems in your cities, but here there are some promoters and clubs that won’t cut a check for multiple weeks after a gig and some just wont at all. Earlier on before i started using contracts i was paid for around 50% of the gigs i was supposed to be paid for. Promoters would say the club owed me the money, and then the club would say the promoter did etc. When your starting out that can be really frustrating because you can’t really get mad at those guys because they are getting you playing time in clubs and I’m guessing that is just how it is when you start out, but it was shady. Now that im not breaking into the scene anymore i just dont accept gigs those promoters offer, even if some may be for larger events. Now that we use contracts it can still take 4+ weeks for some promoters to cut a check. Is that common with all you guys as well, and how do you handle it?

  • http://www.dj-cab.com DJ-CAB

    Excellent read guys. I came across this Web site about a month ago and I can’t believe how useful it is. I don’t know what your motives were for creating it, but I’m glad you did (and I’m sure I speak for a lot of other DJ’s out there as well). So keep this shit up!

    As for this specific topic, I wanted to share my personal situation. I started DJ’ing back in ’95 when I was 13 years old. Throughout this time, I’ve mainly been a mobile DJ (I had “residencies” at a couple of skating rinks back in the day and played at a small amount of clubs, but mainly mobile DJ’ing has been my thing). Being a mobile DJ brings in great money, but hauling all that equipment around is a lot of work (and after working 40-hour weeks at my day job, work is the last thing I want to do). I want to really focus on landing club gigs from this point forward cause the times that I have done it, I fucking loved it. Aside from having all my gear fit in my book bag, it’s a lot more fun, and seriously, there’s just no comparison.

    It’s clear that I love DJ’ing; it’s been my passion for all these years. With that said, I don’t do it for the money, but I’m not a sucker either. I’ve invested a lot of time and money throughout the years, and the last thing I want to do is let some jack ass promoter short change me. On the other hand, I realize “where I stand” and the reality is, even though I paid my dues as a mobile DJ, that is pretty much irrelevant to club DJ’ing. I need to build my network and start from scratch. I think my biggest problem is that I don’t really know any other DJ’s. All my friends are into other things and I’ve pretty much been the one serious DJ they know (great for mobile gigs, not so great for club gigs).

    I really like the suggestion of opening up for other DJ’s who are already established. It’s tough approaching someone you don’t really know though. The other guy has no idea if your cool or just some freak and will likely not want to take the chance (I would probably do the same). On the other hand, I think it’s a much better route than cold calling clubs and asking for a spot. I literally took a day off from work once and walked up and down south beach going into clubs with my demo cd. Nothing came from that.

    It’s definitely a challenge establishing yourself in this industry. You want to do it more than anything, but you don’t want to do it by screwing other people over (i.e. undercutting fellow DJ’s). At the same time, you can’t really charge the same thing these DJ’s are charging because, guess what, they have a name and you don’t! How else can you compete?? Someone on the Serato forums, when talking about this same subject, wrote that the cream always rises to the top. Definitely true. Let’s see.

    Someone should make a reality show about following the lives of DJ’s trying to make it in this industry! If someone out there does, I don’t want creative rights, just include me in the cast!

  • Audio1

    I agree with Supersede. I couldnt walk out of my house for less than a specific amount, Again, Depending on venue, capacity, door, bar, relationship with management/promoter, Hence I am only DJing on Fridays lately. In my scene (San Francisco Bay Area), Its real cutthroat in the DJ Market. Every DJ is looking for whatever gig becomes available and the sheer number of people willing to work for next to nothing is seriously appalling. I’ll be the one to say this but even the biggest names in my city helped bring the prices tumbling down. I can remember around 2007-2008, You’d easily make 200-300 for a 2 hour set at any spot around SF. Now you would consider yourself lucky to make 200-300 for an entire 4 hour night set. Things change, It isnt just a bad economy. Supply versus demand. There’s a big demand for DJ’s and an endless supply of DJ’s… On a personal level, I am 30 years old. I’ve been DJing for 18 years, paid dues and still pay dues to this day. If the money isnt correct for an event or club gig, I would rather catch an out of town headliner at a different venue or chill with my family. Family always comes first. I love this DJ game but definitely always get paid what you are worth and know when you can take a gamble and see where it takes you. Respect!

  • Brian Armand

    Just To re-ad a bit, Under-cutting fellow DJs in your own market is not cool,I feel it drives down the price paid for the next DJ who takes your place if you leave a venue, The new DJ might be a sensational DJ unaware at how you took a lower pay just to satisfy the club owner getting off for cheap, and you being so excited to get work, that you took less money for the gig then your worth. And believe me its a snow ball effect. Its like the housing market, in some states, like when I lived in Virginia, I was staying in Jamestown(a section of Williamsburg), Jamestown being a settlement dating waaaaay back, was kept immaculate. In order to keep the neighborhood up to pristine standards, you as a homeowner had to keep up on the maintainence of your house, the grounds, trash, etc. or you could be fined. Why, because if you let your property goto hell, it would bring down the market value of the rest of the surrounding niehborhood. And if the niehborhood started going down, people with money going to look to move there would say, why am i going to pay top dollar, when the neighborhood is in shambles. Same with Club owners, after the guy who has been djing for minimal pay at thier club for the past 5 years leaves, and the new dj steps in to negoitate, the club owner will say, “why should I pay you that kind of money, the guy I had before you Djed for next to nothing”….and at that point club owners arent willing to hear you ramble on about how good you are and how you can change the world at thier club if you just pay the going rate this time around.
    -
    Just like I stated in my previous post, the guy in 1997 who was Djing this bar on the water, that soon became my gig was underpaying himself by just taking 75 dollars, because the owner said to this DJ, that he had owned bars since the 70′s and he never once had to pay a dj more then 75 dollars, so this dj I guess was eager to just have a dj job and took it. When I negoitated for 175, I knew for that time in 97, it was a much more then I even expected, and honestly I can tell you that Djing For Your worth pays off, not just for you, but for the djs who come after you. When I left that 175 bar gig on the water in 2001, the next Dj who happened to be a very close friend of mine was able to use the 175 dollars as a starting point, and it worked.
    -
    One last point, when I did take a club job at busch gardens in williamsburg in 2001. It was the first DJ job with a long contract. Because it was for a new nightclub in a theme park, you dont just meet a club owner, you meet, the busch gardens executives, you just dont get paid, you sign a contract deal, and then get paid a lump sum of money. also i had to use my mobile dj companies insurance to cover liabilities between me and the club, tons of paperwork for me to process and to sign from everything from, if i get injured from a falling light or any other act of god(lol). As professional as these execs were, this club thing, as I was told by my DJ manager at the time, the club was a last minute add on to that seasons events. I had just got the job for audio engineer and show control at the new Irish Thunder show opening for the first time . It was a season of firsts. And definitly to these park execs who specialized in usually just running musical shows and aniamatronic shows for the parks, I felt a sort of uncertainy with this Club thing they were putting together. None the less, at that point, I only had 4 years of djing expierience in clubs and bars back in 2001, however I was a mobile DJ for 12 years up till then. So my manager, who we became friends, but had no control over which direction the club would take, talked me up good to those execs in charge, and he pushed for me to be a creative consultant for the progression of the club. We had only months to set everything up from scratch. They gave me a list of the equipment they wanted to rent, and for me even though they had me on as a consultant, they still were bitchin at why we needed to spend so much more in dj equipment that i requested. At one point one older exec who not even the other execs liked, but at the same time you sort of had to respect him because he signed your paycheck every 2 weeks said “at this rate I mind as well find that 16 year old who DJed my sons wedding last year, he did that wedding for 125 dollars and he had lights and smoke..it was great….”after this exec finished this statement, I for sure knew I would be getting screwed, how can I now get more then around 125 with this guy complaining about the finacial worth of a DJ and the tools he needs to craft his skill. I thought damn, who ever that 16 year old was, he just screwed his whole area on word of mouth, cause when another wedding comes around, and others hear about a kid that DJs a wedding with the works thrown in for 125 dollars, whos gonna wanna pay 800 dollars for a wedding. 800 dollars was my basic start package in the early 1990s, here it was 2001, so needles to say, after this being my second incident, where DJs low balling themselves almost hurt my chances of getting paid for what I was worth, I always stay aware of my “DJ” surroundings when it comes to finacial worth…(Oh, and sorry for the 2 long posts, I just have a long invested passion in music, I guess it comes from songwriting, and magazine article writing.) Anyways, its nice to see thier are some level headed DJs out there that know the buissness, are aware of the buisness, and at the same time are able to mix in the fun and pleasure of feeling like we are playing, “literally” at our jobs…cheers!!

  • http://www.djjasondawson.com Dj JD

    @C.FLO – You’re absolutely right. But not only are you screwing every other professional in town, even worse, you’re screwing yourself. You spent all that time and money learning your craft and buying the right equipment. Now if you go do things for free, at cost, or cheap, you’re hurting yourself more than anything. You deserve better, so help yourself.
    -
    Another quick point I want to make, in our world, money changes everything. Once money if involved, people take things more seriously. That’s why I try not to even give friends discounts, and if I do, they are minimal. When they have money invested in you they take you more seriously. When you’re getting paid well for an event you take it seriously. Money is not just a means of what your worth, it’s what your role is worth for that event too.

  • http://www.djcflo.com/ C.FLO

    i think all of the comments and advice given so far are right on track. prices will vary market to market, and i know around here, most of the bar owners/managers wont share their nightly numbers with you, so it’s hard to get a good sense of what percentage you should be making, whether that’s from the door or bar sales. local headlining DJ’s have worked together to establish a flat rate of 300 dollars for friday and saturday nights.

    personally, i shot myself in the foot when traveling down to santa barbara and expecting to receive the same pay. because I can make 300 dollars locally, it was hard for me to accept less pay considering that travel costs are also involved. I inadvertently burned some bridges asking for 300, because the going rate in SB (as I now understand) is 200/250, even for out of town headliners at some the bigger clubs downtown.

    as far as getting your foot in the door, JD is absolutely right – apprenticeship-style opening shows your willingness to put in work and learn the ropes. DJing for free in spots that normally pay good money is straight up screwing your fellow DJs… i like to draw comparisons to other paid-services to help paint the picture.

    let’s say you love tinkering with cars. you are happy to change your friends oil for them and help them out with their car troubles for free, just because it’s what interest you and you think it’s fun. this is like bedroom DJs getting the opportunity to DJ a friend’s house party or small event. i don’t see a problem in providing that service for free.
    now let’s say you get good enough at fixing your friends cars that you decide to go pro. you get your act together and open your own business, have your own shop and tools and everything. if you continued to provide your services for free, you would be SCREWING every other auto shop and mechanic in town. when new DJ’s step into the club scene and undercut everyone else who has worked hard to establish their position and income in that market.

    i feel like i’m rambling here, so i’m gonna log off at this point.

  • Brian Armand

    I agree with everything everyone is saying here. Just like stated in the above posts, most Djs who have been in the game for a long time know where they stand as far as self worth in this Industry. That said, just like JD stated about how there is an extreme difference in club vs. mobile pay, I feel, in-expierience vs. expierence carries the same wieght. We all had to start out, weather going it alone at first, or under someones wing. I think we all did the freebies too.
    I personaly at the beginning did not mind one bit that my pay at the end of the night was an early serving of diner slop paid for by some of the guys I would open for. In 1997 for my first gig I was paid 175 to do a smaller sized bar, however location, big crowds, and lighting were key figures for my negotiating. A bar right on the water. To me 175 a night was a lot, seeing it was my first bar-club gig, and originally they were paying the previous DJ 75 dollars. I also agreed to re work thier lighting system. Since it was a smaller venue they were using the mobile dj stuff we all loved back then(lol). I got them to invest in dmx lighting, convincing them that by enhancing the overall atmosphere would go along with my productions i would perform and overall give a new look to it. However my part of the bargin was to have control over installing and maintaining, seeing they werent going to pay additional money for the lights, then additional money for a light guy too. So this is one of the tactics i used and stayed commited to on my end by having them pay me more a night. It was one hand washes another. And I only use this example, because the week before i started the gig there, the owner said to me, “we have to do something with these lights” and that was my in to say hey if i do this for you for free, will you be open to paying me a little more each night on the terms that I keep the bar packed as possible.

    Playing for free or little in the beginning to me was the pinacle of what ive been practising alone for months upon months alone in my room for 12 to sometimes 16 hour days honing in on my skills. It was like DJing for fun, however now I had the exposure of actual people noticing what I could do. In my early years as a DJ, I remember even hearing some documentary on mtv saying it was ok to do some parties for free, just to get the exposure. It was then i knew i was on the right track. So my thoughts are if your starting out, take what you can get for the exposure, because you never know when being at the right place at the right time may pop up for you. However my stance on an expierienced skilled DJ is much different, just like the previous posts from you guys. If Im well known, and my connections are solid, and I have a good track record of not just being the best possible DJ, but always showing up on time and lending a hand to my co workers, I think it puts you in a much better position to not settle for less than your worth. If you have been 10, 12, 20 + years in the biz, and your pay is not equaling your skill level, the difference at this point is your resume and those strong connections that got you to this point, will come into play for you in searching for that next big gig. Plus for me anyway getting offered a small amount for big productions only drives and pushes me to be a go getter at the next audition.

    I like JD was working in a music store at the time of my mobile giging, however it was a brand new Sam Ash that had just opened, so I had no customer base to start with, however, my managers were seasoned pros some transfered from big city markets, and had a knack at gaining a quick customer base. My reference to this is because my manager told me its all about that first impression, and connections you make a long the way. He told me to let them know you got what it takes to sell synths and dj equipment, and theyll keep comin back to deal with you, because you have the knowledge. Same goes for dJing, If your good, your good. period, clubs will embrace your skills and keep having you come back, because the bottom line is you as the DJ can make or break a bar or clubs sales in alcohol etc, by not knowing what the crowd wants. same goes for that customer base in the music store, they wont come back(at least not to you) if your not giving them what they want.

  • http://twitter.com/F4S7L4N3 F4S7L4N3

    I agree with Supersede. Every event is different depending on the location, client, venue, what day of the week. etc. And I will not leave my house in less its for at least $300. their are the occasional gigs I’ll do for places run by friends on a slower night like a tuesday or wednesday for $200. Although in the beginning I believe its good to take every gig that comes your way. the experience is good and it helps to get out there and seen. Playing to an actual crowd and not just practicing in your room is completely different and can give you on hand exp at reading and play toward an adjusting crowd over the night. So if you are just starting our DJ Rivas, market your self correctly and advertise what you are. Don’t claim what your not and undermine the rest of us for a quick fix of money. Depending where your market is located it all depends on how much you charge. Since I’m in chicago I can walk into a venue thursday-saturday and easily get at least $350. But if you travel up to milwaukee in wisconsin and try to get the same type of venue you’ll prob be looking at $200-275 depending how busy they are.

    If you want to know more shoot me a line on my twitter @F4S7L4N3 and I can try and lead you in the right direction.

  • http://www.djjasondawson.com Dj JD

    @DJRivas: I was in the same spot when I started doing clubs. I come form a mobile background as well. Let me tell you, mobile and club DJing are not the same. You can’t play music the same way. It’s really hard to say what the right price point is. I give you a lot of credit for being conscious of undercutting other DJ’s. That’s definitely not the image you want to put out there. Because it’s hard to pinpoint the “right price,” let me tell you how I came up in the club business to give you an idea of a good way to pay your dues and learn the ropes.
    -
    The way I started in clubs was as an opening DJ. I was living in Boston at the time, had just graduated college and was working at Guitar Center. Through GC and a mutual friend I linked up with Dj Val Beatz who played at Roxy on Fridays and another popular club on Saturdays. I had been a mobile DJ for 6+ years at the time and always wanted to get into clubs. I asked Val about opening for him and he asked for a mix CD. Over the next 2 days I put together the best mix I could. He thought it was good enough to give me a shot and pretty soon I had the chance to actually open. Now, this was not a paying gig. This is the part where you are the apprentice and you have to practice and pay your dues before you’re ready to go out on your own. I opened for Val most Fridays and Saturdays for a year without being paid. It was worth it. Over that year I learned how to lay out the night, what songs work/don’t work, club politics, etc… And every now and then when the DJ for the club next door didn’t show up, I’d be there to fill in and get some practice headlining a smaller venue. As we’ve talked about before, opening and headlining are two totally different beasts.
    -
    Eventually I started branching out doing smaller club gigs on my own. These were the smaller, lower paying gigs. I wasn’t trying to overstep my bounds and take a big club gig I wasn’t ready for and undercut someone. You can’t really undercut at a club/bar that only pays $150-200 max anyway. So I kept doing my mobile gigs, which payed WAY more than the club gigs (That’s just the nature of the beast. Don’t expect the same $ from club and mobile gigs. Not gonna happen) and built my club resume.
    -
    I moved back home to CT where I ran my mobile DJ business out of and started networking with local club DJ’s. I made a new CD and gave it to EVERYONE! After meeting the right people I had a chance to do a guest spot at one of the local casino clubs that had an opening. This was a huge deal for me! I rocked it and got my first residency doing Friday nights in a casino nightclub. That was almost 4 years ago now. That gig didn’t last forever, but better things have come along.
    -
    Like all good things you have to build from the bottom with a solid base. The year of opening was priceless to me. I recommend people pay their dues, put their work in, and good things will come. If you’re new to this, find a mentor. Someone who knows the ropes and can teach you. Don’t expect anything in return except experience. Watch, listen & learn. You’ll be better for it.
    -
    I hope that helps answer your question. It’s hard to put a price on a club gig. Every city/club is different. Dj’s skill levels are different. All these things factor into what you should charge. Ask around. Get to know other DJ’s. Make friends, not enemy’s in your DJ community, not always an easy thing to do. Start small and work your way up.

  • Supersede

    Personally, I wouldnt ever leave my house for less than $200-300, even when I was starting out. But it really all depends on the location, client, venue, etc. You’re not going to get $1,000 from a place that holds 50 people. It’s all relative to their bar sales and door intake. If you have a good idea of what they make at those two points, you can make a good guess at what they will pay you as a DJ. I usually ask for about 15-25% if I know those numbers, because you have to understand that YOU are the entire entertainment source. If you’re good, you’ll be worth it to them.

  • DJRivas

    I’m a mobile DJ looking to get into the club scene. I don’t want to undercut any other DJ’s or get ripped off but what is a good starting rate for a new-comer on the scene?